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Lot of people say wanderer can't play support, is it true?

Discussion in 'Wonderer' started by Tankno, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    I like the basis of the wanderer class but I want to play mainly a support role. I read about the ment/vit build, how good at support is it? I'm not a fan of the acolyte so I'm deciding between creator and wanderer. It would be nice to heal as well as a creator, is that feasible? I read it can tank well but without aggro meters in this game does that even matter? Thanks!
     
  2. Taibasa Tsuyou

    Taibasa Tsuyou Otaku Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Warning that I might go to and from all places to answer your questions.

    Saying that Wanderer isn't a supporter class is like saying that π/pi (3.14) isn't a number.

    It's just that a lot of people are just High Damage hungry, so they go for more stats in STR (or INT). However, this will and can take away the efficienticy of being a supporter as a Wanderer. The most prefered support heal it has is the heal skill of Bard which is based on MEN. That said, the whole class and Hermit too, has skills based on MEN.
    Next to this there are other skills that can bring input as being a support, like Flame of Peace for the Regen of HP and SP.

    As a Support, your damage is in a lot of situation Lower than when you're focussing on an attacking stat.

    Support actually means being in a party or a group where you supply supporting factors to others while you're sometimes attacking. At that time when you are mostly attacking with decent to high damage input, you're not a supporter anymore, but an attacker instead.

    Support = (Healing+Buff+Debuff) > Attacking
    Not-Supportive = (Healing+Buff+Debuff) < Attacking

    At least, that's how I see the term "Support" within MMOs.

    In the case of Wanderer, it has enough Skills to provide Support to others, so it can be supportive.
    If you're looking at e.g. mage, it doesn't have a lot of Buff and Debuff that hits the foe to support others, so Mages won't be able to Support other than being the Attacker. You could say that a Mage is supporting you because it's attacking and killing, but that kind of "support" would then be classified as "attacker" because the attack output is higher than the amount it can and/or will heal, buff and debuff for others (think I'm repeatin myself here a bit).

    As for Wanderer going for MEN means that your Bard and Hermit skills are profitting from that high amount of MEN, as well as Bard's Healing skill will improve. As a second overall profit you will have a high amount of Magical defense and Max SP which allow you to be able to use lot of skills for a longer amount of time. As for VIT, it will increase your max HP as well as higher Physical Defense. This way you last longer and can profide longer support.

    However heals is different for each class and each skill. In terms of healing Acolyte is still at top. Below comes Creator and Wanderer which both have various kind of Healing Skills. I don't know every skills just out of my head and deep in detail, but both sides do have their own kind of Support-healing. Creator has additional support on the heals like the buffs and debuffs it has, and so does a Wanderer have its own like HP and SP regening skill Flame of Peace which profide extra support to the heals.
    I don't think I'd be able to state one above the other as that the Build themselves are also playing a role for the effectiveness of the heals (if only talking within the Healing section).

    Aaaand regarding Aggro.. it's true that Avabel doesn't has a major point for Aggro, but I wouldn't say that Avabel completely doesn't have Aggro.
    There is Aggro in the game, but it doesn't really play a huge role as in other MMOs. This is because the Aggro system in Avabel is switching a lot when a lot of players are attacking the same Monster/Boss. I don't exactly know how it works to the detail in Avabel, but when you are in an empty map, and you try to hit a monster without killing it, it will in the most part, chase after you until either a certain time has passed or when you're too far away. Of course they also have auto aggro on higher floors too.
     
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  3. Oceanmk

    Oceanmk Exploring around~

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    What I love is.. wonderer have many skills to push enemy away :p Surface edge (only for 1h/2h spear) is one quick and effective skill base wonderer have. Bard have discord, can be a bit slow to cast, it bounce enemies away with a wider range and very flexible skill when to weapon choice. High damage when use with Men stat.

    Geo dancer have a high damage magical skill like Asround (that tonardo skill) which slightly push enemies away. And Sheeps Song which do an AOE magic that make surrounding enemies have a chance to sleep.

    Hermit wolf fang skill dash forward and hit enemy with a slight push effect. Only branch type C can go through enemies. Shark drive hidden branch Type C can knocks back the enemies on landing.

    So Wonderer support by recovering teammates SP, a bit on the HP, make enemies sleep which help teammates on attacking and push dangerous enemies away when teammates low on HP.
     
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  4. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Thanks for the replies guys! I'm nearing level 30 and just can't decide between creator and wanderer. I know I don't want acolyte even though their heals are best. So a few followup questions. How does a men/vit wanderer's heals compare to an int creator?
    Do support wanderers still use 2h spear like other wanderers?
    So from my understanding here is the breakdown -
    Creators have 2 heals, potion mist and the planter tree. They can buff and debuff quite a bit from classes like the blacksmith and alchemist, this is generally their best support feature and why people like them in parties.
    Wanderers get 1 heal in the bard song, they also have an sp recovery and sleep ability as well as skills that push back enemies.
    In terms of attack both seem equal is that correct? Creators might be more single target focused and wanderers aoe maybe?
    I saw this in my other thread - 'Still need to unlock hermit before I can confirm burst damage is doable or not. (Battle dancer boost 100atk skill --> Hermit wolf fang boost 10str (use as combo) with discord more power branch (-str and give discord skill 3 times the Str from Men stat). If 300 men will give 900 str damage with discord.'
    This seems like a lot of damage, so does support wanderer have the ability to deal lots of damage too?
     
  5. Oceanmk

    Oceanmk Exploring around~

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    I learned the discord trick from one player I found in youtube :D Type Men Bard and find a user named 'RPG online.. ' \(-^-^)/

    Wonderer actually got very low damage with Men build. And that user 'RPG online' use Men > dex build (those Crits :woot:) mainly for grinding floors. Rarely see any pvp video, which I think is logical too, unless u love poking enemies (low damage xD) so much :p.
    ...yes.. I love poking : D
     
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  6. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    So even with the discord trick the wanderer men build is still much lower damage than a strength build?

    What about a dexterity focused build, that could benefit but attack and support?

    Lastly does anyone have any numbers on how much a support wanderer can heal? Thanks guys!
     
  7. Oceanmk

    Oceanmk Exploring around~

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    Support Wanderer (Bard) at Level 70 I heal myself 400+, 500+, 600+. For three ticks its about 1500 heal, therapy melody takes player Men > Str (3:1 ratio) into consideration. So u can heal Str user by a bit, like 100+, 100+, 200+. Wonderer heal is not a reliable one, unless u have a guild of Men Wonderer army then oh..gosh all stick together spam heal and discord xD
     
  8. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Ah okay so the bard heal does not heal your party much because it is based on their men stat not yours? That's kind of dumb haha.

    What about the discord trick, can you do more damage than a strength build with that? Thanks!
     
  9. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    The answer to that question is clearly no. You are essentially asking if one skill could out damage a combination of 15+ skills. Also, if it could do that, wouldn't that be the most recommended build?
     
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  10. Oceanmk

    Oceanmk Exploring around~

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    Yeah Str build is still the more effective build for wonderer for damage. Men discord combo is more like a gimmick xD It may work as a huge burst one hit though. But since @Luxx tried the damage based discord. I hope he tried the combo before with hermit wolf fang. I guess I still have a long way to go for my wonderer.. Unlocked all wonderer adv class (Geo dancer with 7 gems) except hermit and ancient (maybe spent gems on evo gauge spin lol)
     
  11. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Ah okay that makes sense. I forgot about cooldowns . Figured could just spam the one ability haha.

    Could someone confirm that all of the wanderer's heals are based on the men stat of the people you're healing and not your own? If this is the case I might just go with creator. While the wanderer does sound like a cool concept for an attacker class it seems to not hold much ground for someone who wants to mostly support haha.
     
  12. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    I'm pretty sure I already said this. WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LISTEN TO ME?!
     
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  13. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Sorry haha, been reading so many guides, just been a lot of information

    Although I have to ask, why bother with a ment/vit build if all the healing is based on the ment stat of the people you're healing? If the ment stat only boosts your own self healing but not the healing to others is that really a good enough reason to do that? It sounds like people are calling the ment/vit build the support wanderer build but wouldn't a strength wanderer have exactly the same party healing capabilities lol?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2016
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  14. Taibasa Tsuyou

    Taibasa Tsuyou Otaku Member Staff Member Moderator

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    uhm...You do understand that Support isn't only about Healing others right...?
    As Bard (and Hermit) Skills are based on MEN. But all in all, MEN and VIT can be needed because with high MEN you can use Skills longer and with VIT you're surviving longer, which means you can provide support for a longer time.
     
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  15. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Yeah I know there are buffs and debuffs and stuff like the sleep ability, but I feel it would be nice to heal decently as well. It doesn't seem a wanderer can do that. Even if men and vit have some benefit, wouldn't you still be better off just going strength since it doesn't matter for your group heals? Better to have the stronger skills than more sp to use weaker skills surely? I guess it doesn't seem worth it to me if it doesn't boost group heals but I have not actually played the class far enough, so it's all just odd theory crafting haha
     
  16. Oceanmk

    Oceanmk Exploring around~

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    ^ Yeah it's really an odd theory craft. I still remember when bard first came out I have advised people 'hear the true is pain, men bard is bad and go Str > Vit is the logical way' Then soon I go the Men build then addicted to it lol.
     
  17. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    What makes you like it so much could I ask?
     
  18. Oceanmk

    Oceanmk Exploring around~

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    Out of the 5 stats. Dex, Vit and Men is the most interesting. Men is never a thing until wonderer came out. At first able to heal and not restricted to weapon attracts me. Acolyte & creator heal heavy depend on Int stat and especially weapon matk. Bard & Hermit heal bypass it, focus on pure Men stat alone.

    Then discord -str sign makes me curious. Thinking why -str but still gives so many Str damage based on Men. Then a YouTube video shows the reason (that discord combo)

    When I do Men > Vit at low level with 2h Spear. I feel like a warrior that never say 'outta sp' in pvp xD
     
  19. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Ah so wanderer's heals aren't based on the matk of your weapon either?

    Would the ment/vit build also work at max levels and in pve? What's your role in pve like, kind of semi attack, small bit of support I guess?
     
  20. Oceanmk

    Oceanmk Exploring around~

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    Yeah. Nothing got to do with weapon matk or atk. Pure Men stat for Healing Water (Hermit). Men & Str stat (3:1 ratio) for Therapy Melody (Bard)

    I would say Men > Vit build as general will do well in PVE. Passion note for Bard increase critical rate based on Men. That skill is an effective skill for grinding together with basic attack skills of wonderer.

    Flame of peace with sit emotion will help other players regain HP & SP in a pretty good amount. Players will like to farm with wonderer.

    Edit: Here's a video I like lol.. The discord combo from that RPG avabel online
    ..guy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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