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Enchanter Element Poll

Discussion in 'Creator' started by Ace144, Nov 16, 2016.

?

What type of element (outside of light and dark) would you use?

  1. Fire

    25.0%
  2. Water

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Earth

    25.0%
  4. Wind

    50.0%
  1. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
    Creator
    In Game Name:
    Ace
    Level:
    79
    Guild:
    AzureSky
    I know there is a thread on Enchanter, and this question does show up in the thread. However, I think the info there is slightly off. I believe the branching paths decide what element YOUR ALLIES need to be wearing to receive the buff. (Before level 2, the buff is for yourself.) I want to test to see if what I believe is correct or not, but I don't know what branch would benefit most people the most. This is why I created this thread (though I think the poll is the most important part). I want to choose the element that would benefit other people more (since I believe that I, the caster, can use any of the four elements to gain the buff).

    I think I might also want an explanation on why the element is chosen. Was it to boost the abilities of a certain class? Was it because a certain enemy or boss gets on your nerves? Do just like using that element just because?
     
  2. ~Rayleigh

    ~Rayleigh One for the money~ Staff Member Moderator

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    The problem with that is most players now go for light or dark weapons. Back then fire was the hot element as it was far cheaper and thought to be superior. I my self bounce between all four elements. As thier are tells when i do damage to players i know if its weak, strong or neutral. Though has become increasingly more common for players to match elements to thier skills, so that is something else to put in consideration.
     
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  3. Xiansai

    Xiansai Information Host

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    Class:
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    In Game Name:
    XI
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    Haha.. I see what you did there.
     
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  4. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
    Creator
    In Game Name:
    Ace
    Level:
    79
    Guild:
    AzureSky
    That's my biggest question/concern.

    I created this poll because I plan writing up a review for Enchanter. (I plan on writing one for every class, but I want to have as much of my info correct before I start declaring things. I also want master as much of the class as I can before I write. Blacksmith should be first, but I want to have the info on Enchanter before I start since they are so similar.)

    Every time I look at Enchanter, it seems VERY weird. It almost completely matches Blacksmith. (One offensive buff, one defensive buff, one attack and one passive. The only difference is that Enchanter has a hidden.)

    My question becomes why is Enchanter the way it is. The first confirmation I want to do is that the caster can use any of the four elements regardless of them branch. Second is, "Does Stone of Moves stack with Enchant Power?" I know there is a thread saying that attack buffs that are the same don't stack, but I don't think that might be the case. It would be weird that they released a class with two buffs that are similar to another class, but only the caster can make use of the buffs. (Though most people would say, don't put an element on your weapon for it ruins the awesome passive. I'm going to test the effects of the passive. I'm also going to show how this passive is actually one of creator's weakest passive.) I'm mastering Blacksmith tonight, and I'm going to unlock Enchanter tomorrow. I found a way for me to gain large amounts of jexp quickly, so I should be able to have some results next week.

    Also, I didn't forget about Enchant Guard. I just don't think it's a useful party buff.

    EDIT: I did consider classes, but there is so too much variety. The only class that doesn't have any element variety is creator (outside of the "this stupid skill that places fire on the ground"). Though there is a possibility that Planter has elements attached to its skills. I made plans to test that next week with a friend.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
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  5. ~Rayleigh

    ~Rayleigh One for the money~ Staff Member Moderator

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    Class:
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    Well back then they only had three adv classes for each base class. Two of the three were either mirror versions of them self in terms of skills or polar opposites. The third was just to be different Eg alchemist. Keeping that in mind that they are very old classes compared to the others they serve as the backbone for skills and abilities regardless how you cut it. Tis why i often value the older classes or even the base class more so then the new adv classes.

    Well to attack this paragraph in order as you type it >.>

    I would say it doesnt stack for that very reason you mentioned, if it was a passive it would stack nicely however it is an active skill and must take place of a special section where they flag buffs or debuff variables. Just like we can only have so many exp/jexp/item drop boosts at a time from those colored books or what have you. @GJO was looking for at one point if they melded the buff/debuff in a different fashion if done in a different order. He has a thread on it, if i recall he thought he had something but it was far to inclusive to be enough to make it the word of god. Which was shocking as he normally pumps out amazing content and research notes and he did but it didnt yield the results others or himself wanted (i to wanted it to be a little more complex as then the few skilled rpgers could capitalize on it).

    Secondly enchanters passive, while it has been a while sense i brought my creator out to play. I recall you could use the passive if your offhand had no element or if your main was no element and the off hand was elemental (to further capitalize on the active skill buff). Thier is even a thread on it...or was a thread on the matter. I believe the old mod of the forum merged it to some dump sight or is mixed in with the other creator threads or deleted it. All in all, that information was a pain to find last time without doing test runs your self.

    That skill wasnt as useful unless you ran with a team you knew well. imo

    Well if you consider most ppl either run with the element of thier skills (which is easy to find a common for) or light/dark. If it has been anything like the past when i had time to play actively, then wind and fire where the top picks, water being third in the running and earth just being thier to fill in some armor spots for wind users.
     
  6. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
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    In Game Name:
    Ace
    Level:
    79
    Guild:
    AzureSky
    Because they are old, that is why I so curious. I haven't seen any solid numbers for Enchanter. Before I confirm my speculations, I wanted to get some info on it.

    This goes into my speculation. Stone of moves is one of the most powerful buffs in the game. It has no restrictions at all. Just have SP to use it. Enchant Power immediately starts with a four element restrict. It then forces you to choose an elemental branch. With these restrictions in place, it needs to be stronger than Stone of Moves if it wants to be used (assuming it doesn't stack). This is the first thing I set out to do. I wanted the numbers, so I can make a more accurate prediction. (Though of course, I will eventually see what happens when they are put together.)

    I ended up with four predictions:
    1. The buff is stronger than or equal to Stone of Moves, and they stack (least likely, though the best outcome).
    2. The buff is stronger than Stone of Moves, and it doesn't stack (more likely, and I think it would be useful if dependent on the amount boosted).
    3. It is weaker than or equal to Stone of Moves, and they stack (also more likely, it wouldn't be broken).
    4. It is weaker than Stone of Moves, and they don't stack (why? worst possible outcome).

    (This next part is from the data I gathered. I already made an edit to my post in Enchanter about it. I don't know if you read that yet, so I'll link it here. Right now, it is looking like prediction 3 and 4. I've level it up a little more to level 7. At level 7, the buff from using an elemental weapon that is still at +5 attack and magic attack. The buff for the branched path is still at +15, but the duration has gone up a little. I heard that some skills don't become super useful until level 9 and 10, but I don't have high hopes for it. I really hope it stacks, or it will be worthless.)

    I believe that two buffs coming from different skills (not people) would stack. The debuffs do (weirdly), so why not the buffs?

    The reason why I believe the passive is weak is because it discourages the use of elements. The damage you get from putting an element on your weapon is more worth it than the extra chance to get crits. (Also, have you seen elemental crits?) This is why I want to re-test the data. I want to A) make sure it hasn't changed and B) find out the limitations of it. I read the thread about the passive and shields. The test that was run was slightly flawed (and someone pointed it out). Instead of testing on a person, I'm going to test using Potion Mist. (As far as I'm aware of, it is solely based on the caster's stats.) I'll also test the results with an off-hand element weapon.

    The elemental weapon has to be in your right hand. You will not receive its buff if it is not. (It is written in its skill description. I also tested that before I started typing.) I am unsure if the passive will trigger if the left hand weapon has an element. (I just found out having a non-element in the right and an elemental weapon in the left does change the attacks without elements to the element of the left hand weapon.) I'm going to include this when I test the passive.
     
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  7. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    Some test results. These were done without any group members, but I doubt that testing in a group would give further useful data.

    Parameters:
    • Enchant Power level 9, fire element (I'm 5k jexp from level 10 but too lazy to grind for it), gives +15 to atk and matk
    • Stone of Moves mastered (I can't remember which branch, if any), gives +47 to atk and matk
    • Level 100 character, in Enchanter mode since it's the one non-gangue/non-gem class I haven't mastered
    • 3x Level 90 axes (melodila), Di customization, 7 star maxed, no element, light element, fire element (didn't see a need to test on the other elements, but I have similar with dark, earth, wind, and maybe water)
    • Base ATK = 498-449; MATK = 159-158 (hybrid INT/DEX build)
    Enchant Power Element Weapon Test Results:
    • Fire weapon in main (right) hand, no equipment off (left) hand: enchant power gives its bonus (+15 to atk and matk)
      • ATK = 513-464; MATK = 174-173
    • Fire weapon in main (right) hand, light or non-element (left) hand: enchant power gives its bonus (+15 to atk and matk)
      • ATK = 513-464; MATK = 174-173
      • the above two configurations are the only ones where enchant power worked (though I assume it would also work for group members with a main hand fire weapon equipped)
    • Non element weapon in main (right) hand, no equipment off (left) hand: enchant power does nothing
      • ATK = 498-449; MATK = 159-158
    • Light weapon in main (right) hand,no equipment off (left hand): enchant power does nothing
      • ATK = 498-449; MATK = 159-158
    • Non element weapon in main (right) hand, fire weapon off (left) hand: enchant power does nothing
      • ATK = 498-449; MATK = 159-158
    Stacking Test Results with Stone of Moves
    • Since the fire/main configuration was the only one where enchant power worked, this is the only one I tested
      • With Stone of Moves only ATK = 545-496; MATK = 206-205
    • Disappointing result: Enchant Power and Stone of Moves toggle each other. That is:
      • Casting Stone of Moves on top of Enchant Power simply gives you the Stone of Moves bonus to atk and matk
        • ATK = 545-496; MATK = 206-205
      • Casting Enchant Power on top of Stone of Moves removes Stone of Moves, and you only get the Enchant Power bonus to atk and matk
        • ATK = 513-464; MATK = 174-173
    Why did I choose fire element? Because I used to do a lot of grinding on F13-14 where the earth mobs are weak to fire. Given my current tendency to stick to F18 on the rare occasions when I do play, I'd probably go with wind.

    Edited to add: these tests were done about half an hour before posting and to also note that I'm strictly a PvE player. I can't make any recommendations about PvP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  8. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
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    In Game Name:
    Ace
    Level:
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    Guild:
    AzureSky
    I really was optimistic. It doesn't make sense. Why would they release it if it is 100% inferior to another buff that was released? (I guess it could be useful if someone wanted to job master Tomahawk and still have an attack buff, but this is ridiculous.) Were they too lazy to come up with more elemental skills?

    *sigh*

    This was really disappointing. This buff is pretty much worthless. I could try to still be optimistic and say, "That was only level 9. Try level 10," but that would just be delusional at this point. I wonder if I send them an e-mail, they'll change it. (I don't like the idea of something being so useless.) BTW, @aleph, you can use a wind, earth, and water element for a +5 boost to your attack and magic attack. It isn't much, but it is there...
     
  9. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    I'll have enough jexp to hit level 10 on the skill late tonight and will test again. Am also planning to test to see if the two buffs stack for group members on the off chance that the cancellation on self-buffs is a bug.
     
  10. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
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    In Game Name:
    Ace
    Level:
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    Guild:
    AzureSky
    I was also curious about how much a party member gets from it. The description made it seem like wearing the element gave the caster a slightly bigger boost. (Maybe allies get +10, and the caster gets +15 with the +5 being from having any of the four elements equipped. This is just speculation.)
     

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