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Dual Wield Q&A

Discussion in 'Avabel Game Guides' started by Julie Ava, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. Domocubed

    Domocubed Member

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    In Game Name:
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    I'm pretty sure it only applies to right hand not off hand. I think
     
  2. ~Rayleigh

    ~Rayleigh One for the money~ Staff Member Moderator

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    It extends to off hand as well. If you have no element on the right and one in the left it shows the elemental as well different damage font size which indicates the elemental's effectiveness.
     
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  3. wacks

    wacks Member

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    Hi Guys I've been reading through the rebirth idea and I'm still unsure if want to go for it...
    However as i read through the post i saw the idea "Ability to use 2 2h weapons is from the update not rebirth." can anyone point me out to the right direction how to do this? (can't seem to the post how to do it... I'm a lvl 84 Fbr and it would be really to cool to hold 2 2H weapon... and know it's benefits...
    Please advise. Thanks
     
  4. urdadi

    urdadi Active Member

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    if you could already hold a 2h rod or gun or sword or bow etc, you can now hold 2 of them.

    Menu > Item > Equipment
    just equip a 2h to each hand. no need to rebirth. The advantages are twice the orb slots and twice the monster type/element options. You won't gain any MATK or ATK by adding a 2nd weapon (unless you have a specific orb for that) it just averages the two weapons.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  5. Kairyu

    Kairyu New Member

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    Just to clarify; you can only equip 2 2H weapons if they are the same type. (Eg: 2 two handed swords, 2 two handed guns, 2 rods, etc.) You cannot mix and match different categories of weapons in this way. Also, if you don't go down the orbs/elements route, there really aren't any benefits to having two weapons. Your overall attack is calculated by adding the damage of both your weapons together divided by 2, so unless they're both the same attack, your damage will fall with normal attacks.

    With skills, there seemed to be a nominal boost to dualing 2h weapons with a similar attack rating (I have 2 weapons with a difference of 7 attack and noticed my skill damage went up a while back) but I think this was nerfed with one of the recent updates (Dont quote me, this is from my personal experience. I need to do some testing on this but I have two weapons about ~15 attack apart and noticed my skill damage went down). Magic doesn't seem to have been affected (Once again I need to test this; I observed this through heals with 2 blunt weapons, haven't looked at offensive magic), but don't quote me. If I have time I'll test on Friday for figures. So unless you use orbs and/or elements, your basically paying twice to do the same/less damage.

    Edit:
    Now that I'm thinking about it, I can't recall if the damage increase I saw from dualing two weapons was before or after I added elements to them. The recent damage decrease I saw recently definitely had nothing to do with elements however. Unless someone can link to recent testing, I can quantitatively test this if I have a moment on Friday.
     
  6. wacks

    wacks Member

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    Thanks urdadi and Kairyu really appreciate all the info.. I'll try it later :D
     
  7. Kairyu

    Kairyu New Member

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    So I did some very basic (but quite conclusive) testing on how skills are affected dual wielding 2h weapons; I equipped one 2* 2h gun (Name eludes me at the moment) with 178 maxatk and tested with Spike Shot on orcs on F1. No element/humanised and over 84 DEX. Crits were for 859 consistently. Equipping the same weapon in the second slot resulted in exactly the same damage.

    One interesting thing I observed is I had a pair of 1h guns with the same damage, so I tested under the same conditions with those. With one gun, Spike Shot did 1452 crits consistently, with 2 guns it did 1450, so the damage marginally went down. These guns had 369 maxatk. There really isn't any benefits from dual wielding unless you have elements/orbs on weapons, or if it enables you to use something (Class skills limited to dual wielding like Assassin or Double Barrel, for example)
     
  8. wacks

    wacks Member

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    Thanks Kairyu for the info... i tried it myself I also saw the disadvantage of having 2 2h sword specially with what i used... had a 10* lvl 75 max and a 10* lvl 85 only enchance to lvl48 although the min and max atk is not that high between the 2 swords... i saw that the dmg was greatly affected compare to the lvl 85 alone... i agree with you there really isn't any benefits from dual wielding unless you have elements/orbs on weapons and your class requires in... and in addition, i was hoping that my character will look really cool holding those two big swords per hand... hahahaha
    Thanks again for the help =)
     
  9. Vlauz

    Vlauz New Member

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    In Game Name:
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    Is this a good idea or bad idea? I'm planning to be a spiker/battle dancer.
     
  10. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Unless you really like how dual-wield those spears look, it is not recommended. The only advantage to dual-wielding the same weapon type is you can equip more weapon slots on them. Other than that, it is a terrible idea.

    For info about dual-wielding, read the thread your post was moved to.
     
  11. Valencia

    Valencia New Member

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    using 2 weapon with the same type monster and same element raise your output. so don't say it's only about looks or more slots.
     
  12. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    The element is questionable. (I don't remember reading that.)

    I keep forgetting about monster types. It is probably because I don't use them and don't plan on it.
     
  13. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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  14. Zucrea

    Zucrea Pride & Wrath

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    Dual element is heightened damage.
    Dual monster type same type is heightened damage also.

    Also let me go ahead and clear something up involving an idea on dual wielding that has been plaguing the game.

    Dual wielding two different weapons does not make you weaker if they're not the same one.

    It must of originated in pre monster type era.

    The only way it would lower your damage in comparison to single wielding is if it's not typed/no element AND/OR it is DRASTICALLY weaker than the first you equip.

    EX:

    Wep 1: 250-300
    Wep 2: 220-270
    Average: 235-285
    That's only a 15 stat page drop but your damage is going to go up by hundreds and hundreds.

    AND it doesn't always have to be like that there are so many people it works in reverse for!

    EX2:

    Wep 1: 220-270
    Wep 2: 250-300
    Average: 235-285
    Wow by just adding a second weapon my obsolete first equip slot just got modernized! +15 to my attack!

    For many ADVANCED tier players they seem to think that if they have 2 weapons that are different it will make them weaker.
    The only reason that thought came across is because if you're using 2 different weapons one of them has to be stronger!
    This is still averaged with your weaker weapon type meaning if your original weapon was the weaker one then there are nothing but gains gains gains here!
    And if your original weapon was the stronger one then still who cares? Add an element and type them both and viola based on your skill and damage output you'll hit multiple hundreds to possible thousands higher.

    Lastly why are so many people admitting that it's only worth it with one of the reasons being if you added an element?
    You can literally trade off ONE to TWO human crystals and buy an extra bowl.
    If you're in here trying to figure out why your damage is weak but don't have elements on your weapons you need to dig much much much deeper.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  15. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    I'm with @Zucrea on this. I've frequently used dual wielding and elements to average up my damage, especially back when 7- and 8-star were rare and expensive. Never added monster types but have no reason to doubt that monster typing has similar behaviour to adding elements. Not gonna go through the calculations here, but dual-wielding a pair of axes (both maxed, wind element) where one was 8* and another 9* always gave more more on F18 (all mobs) than single-wielding the 9*. Ditto with similar setup and fire element on all F13-15 mobs.
     
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  16. ~Rayleigh

    ~Rayleigh One for the money~ Staff Member Moderator

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    Id have to disagree. The gain from adding a matching element or of type on top of the cost of (going off of zuc's post of "advance players") higher tier weapons is minimal just to maximize something that can be further enhanced if yall kept to the symmetry for your weapons. If it hasnt changed due to the elemental patch change, the AR gain from matching elements with of type modifiers should be around 7-15% gain. When just single wielding your strong weapon alone with an element and of type would cost half of that. So your telling me you wanna pay another chunk of change for something that gives so little back? And if you do wanna pay for that little bit shouldnt you maximize that gain as much as possible by either grabbing a stronger pair of weapons or a matching set?

    In terms of shear cost of doing this every time you need a new weapon is just hardly practical for the time invested and your gross income for said time.

    Now i wont say dont do it, but i can not agree that it is better for getting the most you can for what you have/ could get.
     
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  17. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    I think the recent discussion here has two main arguments, both of which are valid: effectiveness and cost.
    • On the effectiveness side, @Zucrea and I appear to be answering the question "Does dual wielding offer any benefit?" To which the answer is a resounding yes, especially if you use elements, monster types, etc. (Plus the extra orb slots which @Ace144 also mentioned.)
    • On the cost side, @~Rayleigh and @Ace144 seem to believe that single wielding is generally good enough, and that the benefits of dual wielding are not worth the cost.
    Every player has different circumstances, and I won't judge someone on their resources. @Zucrea has pointed out many times in many threads that there are some fairly easy ways to acquire gold in the game (farming and selling human crystals, for example). As such, cost becomes less and less of an issue. As with any economic decision, the decision factor changes from assessing functionality (will dual wielding give me an edge, and if so, how and how substantial), to cost-benefit analysis (is the edge worth it, and can I afford it, either in current resources or the work required to acquire these resources). It is apparent to me that some of us feel the benefit is worth the cost, and others don't.
     
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  18. Zucrea

    Zucrea Pride & Wrath

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    You're not upgrading to a new weapon a bunch of times.
    It's literally as cost effective as you could possibly get because your old weapon is getting modernized into something that holds relevancy.
    Most of the time people have 1 weapon they have certain things on that weapon like orbs or awake or maybe even as far as type.
    Why would you sit there and grab another lower tier weapon for your 2nd slot when you could grab a better one? Because of a false myth that 2 different weapons = lower attack than 2 of the same? Shouldn't be that way.
    I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about for the "every time you need a new weapon" piece.
    These people getting 10s gear from literal game progression aren't buying no fancy Tycoon.
    They're buying Gales, they're buying blitz' they're buying megstogrese.
    And when it's all built up and they finally have enough to afford something like a verial what are they supposed to do? Single hand a verial for no reason? Discard the blitz that has an awaken and a roserus orb because it won't match the verial?
    No. You slap the verial into your other slot, get more attack than what you had prior and start building that verial too because a base 2nd verial isn't going to beat that built up blitz.
    Also the added damage from a secondary weapon element + type is titanic. I can go test right now and make an edit when I'm done.
    I'll literally just remove my offhand.
    Dual type/ele brownie windshot crit: 6644
    Single type/ele brownie windshot crit: 5630
    I'd say that's quite worth it.
     
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  19. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    I would like to clarify dual wielding the same weapon type is the true argument. I have nothing against dual wielding different weapon types because it does provide different advantages in different scenarios. Ex: Axe and blunt for creator. Knuckle and Blunt for Monk. I could make multiple lists, but I think I have my point across. I just didn't really see the benefit of dual wielding the same weapons.
    (I started this reply earlier, but I didn't finish. Now I see Zucrea's post, and I want to reply.)
    When people mention new pieces of equipment, they aren't already at max level or using equipment that are at the highest level usable. They are usually lower leveled. In that case, it is very expensive as you have to keep your gear up to par with each other. For example, a level 50 using level 50 gear levels up to level 60. He wants to use level 60 gear. Now, he has to level up two more weapons to keep his damage from being lowered. (Your example was minor, but the difference between ranks and levels can play a large role.) That's extra materials and money down the drain. Plus, this does not include the fact that they aren't adding elements or monster types to their weapons immediately. They aren't getting the extra benefits. So really it is pointless to dual wield the same weapon early on. Since this mentality is developed earlier, it spreads later on. They just continue to believe that.

    What you are currently referring to are high leveled end game players. After your statement, I believe that dual wielding the same weapon does have mean. Originally, I thought it was not very worth from a stats point of view. With these extra bonuses, I now see why they gave 2h hand weapons the ability to be dual wield.

    Though personally, I'm still going to only dual wield different weapons or use a shield. The extra damage doesn't interest me that much. Though one question, if monster type crystals reduce damage done to monsters outside of its typing, would the effect be increased with dual wielding two of them? (For example, let's say the human crystal gives 5% more damage to humans. Duel wield would be 10%. If you go against a non-human, it is 5% less. Would it be 10% less if you are duel wielding?)
     
  20. Zucrea

    Zucrea Pride & Wrath

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    For early on gameplay ignore dual wielding unless skill required.
    And my argument wasn't on same type or different type of weapon.
    My argument was on literal same weapon name dual wielding that so many choose to believe is the only way you won't become weaker.
    They'd do Verial+Verial instead of Verial+Tycoon because they think having 2 different weapons weaken you. This goes for a lot of people including those who are supposedly advanced tier.
    And for the typing yes I would assume so.
    Typing isn't good for anything except pvp and boss hunt.
    34-36 are none type which is like elements. Any type on your weapon automatically heightens your damage against them. Any>None
     

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