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Dex and Crit Dmg Guide

Discussion in 'Avabel Game Guides' started by VeelPad, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. Kiyoshi 40

    Kiyoshi 40 New Member

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    Class:
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    In Game Name:
    Kiyoshi
    Level:
    100
    Guild:
    Tower
    Thanks :)It will take some time but i really gonna test it and i surelly post results
     
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  2. ~Rayleigh

    ~Rayleigh One for the money~ Staff Member Moderator

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    I hope someone does, really love with rpgers come to the forum to knock numbers around.
     
  3. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    Here are some numbers from 2 creator-type characters with the following testing setup:
    • each has STR 50+13
    • right-hand weapon: 6-star Donki Rave Level 70 blunt, maxed, with Di customization and wind element
    • left-hand: empty
    • testing on level 9 mobs (Syllain, Sumaris, Grimes) none of which have an element, and all seem to have the same DEF as damage range is consistent between mobs
    Level 75 blacksmith
    • 80 Dex / 106 Hit
    • ATK 384-381
    • Level 10 wield blow type C (specialized type with wider attack range and more damage, costs 7 SP)
    • Critical damage is 1481 (first and second hit) 1542 (third hit)
    Level 100 battle cracker
    • 183 Dex / 264 Hit
    • ATK 475-382
    • Level 10 wield blow type A (stable type with more delicate and improved movements, costs 4 SP)
    • Critical damage is 1366-1395; standard damage seems to have much higher variability than the level 75 character, but I didn't track the exact numbers. Critical hits happen much more frequently but I didn't track it obsessively enough to be able to calculate average DPS for either character.
    • Dual wielding with my level 90 axe (10-star, lv92, wind) and level 90 blunt (10-star, lv87, water) my ATK goes to 686-555 and crit damage is 2087. Also gives MATK of 299-26 and crit heal of 585.
    • Single wielding level 90 blunt (10-star, lv87, water) my ATK is 624-523 and crit damage is 1879. MATK is 471-397; normal heal is 592-692 and crit heal is 892.
    Conclusions:
    Inconclusive as to whether MIN > MAX ATK is better than MIN = MAX. The fact that the two characters have a different type of wield blow means that the comparison is flawed. Now that I'm typing this up I realize that I could test using one of the other skills, such as fire bottle or bone crush. Or I could do a damage differential test between type A and C wield blow on one of my level 30 test characters, and then extrapolate. But that sounds like work ;). We'll see how ambitious/curious I feel later in the week.

    In actual use, I've found the MIN > MAX MATK doesn't improve base healing on DEX builds for creator or acolyte, but there are way more crit heals and I find myself not really needing the DEX buff on the acolyte. One big benefit of a DEX build on acolyte is the fast SP regen due to the passive: super useful for monk and other high SP-consumption skills. I mostly went with DEX builds to as an experiment once I had 10* weapons to compensate for the reduced STR or INT.
     
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  4. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    Well, I was curious so I did some more testing. Similar parameters to above, except that I changed my 100/BCr to BSm and the login bonus of +3 Status wore off. So, new testing parameters:
    • Both 50+13 STR, Maxed 6* Lv 70 Donki Rave blunt (maxed, Di customization, wind element) single wield
    • Tomahawk skill, maxed type C on both
    • Tested on Floor 9 mobs in main tower
    Lv 75 character:
    • 80 DEX / 106 HIT / 384-381 ATK
    • Critical Damage: 1028 (this is 2.7 times MAX ATK)
    • Normal damage range: 662-667 (this is 1.74 times the ATK range)
    Level 100 character
    • 184 DEX / 265 HIT / 476-382 ATK
    • Critical Damage: 1031 (this is 2.7 times MAX ATK)
    • Normal damage range: 663-834 (this is 1.74 to 1.75 times the ATK range)
    Conclusion: MIN > MAX doesn't affect critical damage, but does increase the non-crit damage. Note that the damage multiples are for this skill (tomahawk) on these mobs (floor 9) with the specific element (wind). Note that data sample size for non-crit calculations is ridiculously small.

    Edited to confirm Normal damage range on level 100 character. Retested again under the same conditions, and got almost exactly the same range: 664-834.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  5. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    In Game Name:
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    I want to confirm. The damage range is the smallest number seen from the skill to the largest number seen from the skill correct? If so, this is interesting. (Also, was that maximum number in the damage range a mistake?)

    This makes my head hurt. It looks like DEX could be the best offensive stat because it does eventually increase the stats of attack and magic attack with enough of it. (Plus, the added benefits of more crits and less crits against you.) STR/INT could increase crit damage, but it isn't worth as much without DEX to make someone crit. What is the point of those stats now?

    EDIT: There is one thing that I think that needs to be tested. I think VIT and MEN might play a special role in mitigating damage. Could it be possible to test damage against a VIT build with a DEX build and a STR build?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  6. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    The damage range is indeed as you've interpreted for non-critical hits. The maximum number (834) may have been a mistake. It was late at night, there were lots of mobs, and I was running 2 devices at once. I'll retest when I have time. As I said, the sample size was ridiculously small and unscientific: around 50 mobs for the level 75 character (since the damage range was so narrow) and around 120 mobs for the level 100 character.
    Yeah, it looks like MAX ATK defines the ceiling for critical damage but not for standard damage. I think there are many viable use cases for STR/INT, especially at lower levels and with pre-rebirth characters, or with lots of +crit rate gear. Support players who want big heals will still need a lot of INT, and PVP MATK characters are likely to benefit less as long as their opponents have high DEF/low MDEF armour.
    I have theories, but no means or inclination to test at this point.
     
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  7. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    More data (is it ever possible to have too much?) based on the same level 75 character above. Only change is dropping the DEX down to 84, which gives a HIT of 100 and MIN ATK = MAX ATK. Tested with tomahawk and wield blow (type c) unbuffed (ATK=381) and buffed (ATK=428). These are on F9 standard mobs. Results:
    Tomahawk
    • non-crit hit is always 662 unbuffed and 748 buffed
    • crit hit is always 1028 unbuffed and 1159 buffed
    • crits are 55% stronger than standard hits for this mob
    Wield Blow
    • non-crit strikes 1 and 2 are always 961 unbuffed and 1084 buffed
    • strike 3 is always 1001 unbuffed and 1129 buffed
    • crit strikes 1 and 2 are always 1481 unbuffed and 1669 buffed
    • crit strike 3 is always 1542 unbuffed and 1738 buffed
    Probably best presented in a data table, but I don't have time for that. I did run it through some basic excel and confirmed:
    • tomahawk standard damage is 1.74x ATK; crit damage is 2.70x ATK
    • wield blow (type c) standard damage is 2.52x ATK on strikes 1-2; 2.63x ATK on strike 3 (4.15% stronger)
    • wield blow (type c) crit damage is 3.89x ATK on strikes 1-2; 4.05x ATK on strike 3 (also 4.15% stronger)
    • wield blow crit is 54-56% stronger than normal hit for these mobs
    Other Mobs
    I also encountered a Fern Core while testing. Only checked my tomahawk damage:
    • non-crit hit is always 499 (1.31x) unbuffed and 573 (1.34x) buffed
    • crit hit is always 856 (2.25x) unbuffed and 974 (2.28x) buffed
    • crits are 70-72% stronger than standard hits for this mob
    Because the multipliers are different than for the other mobs, this tells me that critical hits do not completely disable DEF.
     
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  8. urdadi

    urdadi Active Member

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    Location:
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    In Game Name:
    urdadi
    Level:
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    Guild:
    Calamity
    I think normal hits are weakened by both kinds of DEF/MDEF; the number outside the parenthesis is mostly from status pts and the number inside is mostly from gear. So the critical hit is when the enemy gets past the armor numbers and tests your real vitality and mentality numbers. There is a load screen saying one subtracts while other divides too. IDK. Love the raw data tho @aleph . progress continues!
     
  9. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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  10. Duel Wielding Debuster

    Duel Wielding Debuster Blader (rb:Bla,Sti,Cru,Pal,Gla,DKn,FBr,Sam)

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    120 DEX isn't even a lot of DEX. To truly utilize DEX you should have at least 200. Plus, crit rate isn't affected by just your DEX alone; the higher the opponent's DEX, the less crits you'll land. Since the same also goes for you, DEX is also good as a crit shield. Trust me, I've been to No Rule 1 and GvG's, and if you don't have a good crit shield, the damage you take will range in the thousands and you'll soon kiss that precious VIT goodbye. Plus, you can also equip monster ORBs to increase your crit rate, regardless of DEX (that is, if you have a slot open).
     
  11. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    As of the app update on March 30, 2017 "HIT" was changed to "CRI" on the status page.
     
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  12. ~Rayleigh

    ~Rayleigh One for the money~ Staff Member Moderator

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    This is such a pleasure to read just for the shear reason of what i had said in the past posts on this thread and related topics.
     
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  13. Imadomo

    Imadomo New Member

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    Class:
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    so would a full dex be better than full str? or what balance would be ideal?
     

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