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Best support class/most desired support in groups?

Discussion in 'Avabel Class Discussions' started by Tankno, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Hey guys new to the game here, I wanted to play a support class and it seems like the choices are acolyte, creator and wanderer, is that correct? So I wanted to ask in your opinions what is the best support class at the moment and which one has the easiest time getting into groups or is most requested in groups. I was also wondering which support classes are most and least played/picked. Thanks!
     
  2. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
    Creator
    In Game Name:
    Ace
    Level:
    79
    Guild:
    AzureSky
    This is an interesting request. I guess I'll tackle your questions in order.
    As far as "best" support class, there isn't one. Each one has its own style. Personally, I believe the creator is the most supportive. It has skills that helps everyone regardless of the challenge.
    I would have to say that is the Acolyte class, but there is a technicality here. Most people look for Priests specifically. This is an advanced class of Acolyte. It heals very well, and provides the most desired DEX buff. Outside of that class, people don't really care for the other classes much. (Though everyone likes a good acolyte.) Creator is probably the second most requested. People are always looking for Creators to assist in doing the Advents. We debuff and heal.
    Acolyte is number one in this spot as the most played support class. Though I say this as a warning, there are a lot of STR Acolytes running around. They are acolytes who don't play support and focus on the three strength classes that Acolyte gets. There are some people who play the role correctly, but the other type is definitely common. Creators and Wanderers are the less played of the three. (Though I believe Wanderer is played more than Creator, but I'm not sure.)

    Personal notes: I don't really think of Wanderer as a support class. It does have some supporting moves, but it is mainly AoEs and damage. A couple of its advanced classes has some healing skills, but Acolytes and Creators are generally better at the role since they provide a lot more. I don't really hear people asking for them. Though I really didn't get into Wanderer. Maybe another forum member can help. (Summoning @Oceanmk)

    For Acolyte, your goal is to keep everyone health. You are a life line.

    For Creators, your goal is to pull everyone up and bring the enemy down. You have a lot of debuffs at your disposal. You also have a few strong buffs as well. You have a heal that can fill the gaps between the Acolytes heal. You can make a lot of challenges easier just by being there.
     
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  3. Taibasa Tsuyou

    Taibasa Tsuyou Otaku Member Staff Member Moderator

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    In Game Name:
    Taibasa Tsuyou
    Guild:
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    As for INT-Aco you're the Heal-Supporter with at the STR-Aco you're going for the Attacks.
    As Creator you're mostly the Buff&Debuff-Supporter.
    As Mostly MEN-Wanderer, you're literally Support. Your Damage isn't too high while your Heals are still not more effective than INT-Aco and Creator's, it provide literally SUPPORT; Just enough to let others walk around but not enough to get all of them to (almost) fully healed.
    Despite this, a lot of people still looks more to the Skills and its damage, causing people ignoring the Men fact for Bard and Hermit, and go for just more STR and DEX. This makes you a less effective supporter in my opinion.
    Though Wanderer still has a lot of diversity of Builds making various ways to support.

    I do think that you were correct about Aco>Wan>Cre though. I think a lot of Creators running around could be a secondary account because of the Pot making just for selling for Gold to support their Main Character.
    Not based on a fact but my assumption, but I think that Creator is the number one most picked Class for a Secondary Character.

    As for the OP, I think it's the right choice to advise you to stop leveling at max. Lv30. Try the three classes out and restat&reskill your character for free at the Class NPC in the Base City, and then switch to the other class to try them out.
    The Base class cannot say anything about Advanced Classes so you might have to read through the threads here on the Forum instead. Despite that, just testing out the Basic Classes Acolyte, Creator and Wanderer, can give some insight of how the class feels and you can make your decision based on your feeling combined with what you have found on the Forum regarding its Advanced Classes.

    It'll be much more fun if you pick a Class that YOU enjoy playing instead of looking for a most-demanded class others want.
     
  4. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    I did try all 3 a bit. I guess I enjoy being in demand which is why I had to ask haha. I am leaning a lot towards creator because I like the sound of their role. I wanted to ask though, can a creator take care of a group'so healing by itself or is a priest always required? You mentioned they are requested a lot for advents but what about everything else?

    Also is there a guide to a support creator out there? I triedon't searching but didn't see one. Would it be dual maces? And what would the stats distribution look like. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  5. Taibasa Tsuyou

    Taibasa Tsuyou Otaku Member Staff Member Moderator

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    In Game Name:
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    Not really. Creator does has 5 tics? I thought (correct if wrong) of healings, which is good enough is already around 200+ heals per tic. This would sum up to 1k in total which is around the same of a Heal Link of INT-Aco itself. Only difference is that Creator has time intervals while Aco has a direct heal. In case of comparison with Priest's Selfee Holy (Heal Bubble), both has time intervals. Only difference here is that Creator's Heal is standing on its place only, while Selfee Holy moves forwards.

    Then comes the next: Aco has more variety of skills to heal others, while Creator mostly only has one healing skill (There were some advanced classes with additional Healings, but some weren't as effective I thought; Planter was one with healings too..). Anyways, In terms of variety Aco has more Healings than Creator.

    Yet back to the original question, the short answer is at least for me, no. Aco-Priest is not always required. A Creator has enough buffs and Debuffs as well as its healing to maintain survival. Of course co-op of Aco and Creator is always awesome to have! :p
    Let's say Creator is mode Healing+ damage/defense Buff+Debuff orientated while Acolyte is more Healing+Crit+Dex+Regen orientated in a way..

    I think any heals is asked almost everywhere. It's just people's stereotype to thing of Acolyte for heals, but when a Creators comes around and heals, it's evenly more welcomed.

    As for guides...Creator is actually a supporter already, so just read about the class and advanced classes in the Creator Class section! ^^
     
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  6. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
    Creator
    In Game Name:
    Ace
    Level:
    79
    Guild:
    AzureSky
    Yes and no. The creator's potion Mist is a stationary skill. It also heals in bursts, so it is less effective against enemies that hit hard. (To give a perspective: Acolytes can burst heal once, and you would get a lot of hp back. Creator's Potion Mist requires you to stay in the circle in order to regain hp. It is also not as strong as the Acolyte if you aren't in the circle for a long time.) The way I see it, Creators are okay healers, but Acolytes are king in the category. They can heal much faster and better than Creators can. Creators can play the healer role decently if the boss doesn't move a lot. (Though it being a stationary circle hurts it a lot.)
    The only time people really "request" any type of support is for advents. They are the big bads of this game. Most other content can be done without support. Support is appreciated, but it really isn't asked for unless there is another challenge that is difficult. (From what I've been reading, it seems like support attracts people more than people ask for it.)
    Why is this the thing people ask?
    Anyway, there is no such thing as a support build. The thing you can manipulate in terms of support with your stats is your Potion Mist. People consider focusing on INT to be support. (Though, I would never recommend it. Creators are mainly strength based. Focusing on that makes your personal damage low. Of course, your healing would be better, but remember what I said about Acolytes and Creators. Acolytes are king at healing. If there is a good one around, you just wasted stats.) Outside of that, there is no specific build for being a support Creator since debuffs and buffs aren't based on stats.

    That's from level 5 and below. Type C level 6 gives 6 ticks. Type B (I think this is longer duration) level 6 gives 7 ticks (or maybe 8). Type A gives 3 ticks, but has a short cool down time.
    I've seen the Selfee heal. It bursts heals a lot. Then you can walk through again very quickly. It is far superior to the Potion Mist.
    Why don't more people see this? People act like you need one or the other.
     
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  7. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Ah okay that makes sense. So what is a creator' role in the party? Mostly buffs and debuffs it seems. Are these strong enough that they are the reason creators are requested?

    I mostly just like to be useful, I'm not used to mobile mmo's yet, I always play a tank or healer in other mmo's. I guess that I enjoyed was being a skilled tank or healer that people could appreciate, those were usually the classes that people could easily see the difference between a skilled an unskilled player. Is this something that can be done with a creator? Or does skill not make much of a difference for the class if you only have to buff? And if you go for a strength build as you say can a creator keep up with other dps classes?
     
  8. Oceanmk

    Oceanmk Exploring around~

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    Acolyte is my main char, stronger compared to Wanderer Men build in support. I play Wanderer as a support (men build), do sp heal, small amount of hp heal and make enemy sleep for attacker to attack freely.

    Still need to unlock hermit before I can confirm burst damage is doable or not. (Battle dancer +100atk skill --> Hermit wolf fang +10str (use as combo) with discord more power branch (-str and give discord skill 3 times the Str from Men stat). If 300 men will give 900 str damage with discord.
     
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  9. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
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    In Game Name:
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    Guild:
    AzureSky
    Yes. We help increase the damage that other players can do while lowering enemy damage to us. (Though I'm pretty sure I said that people don't generally request certain classes outside of advents.)
    "Useful" is too vague. You can useful just by having good DPS. People will appreciate anyone who helps them... whether it is a supporting class or just another DPS character. While a balanced party with an Acolyte and Creator is optimal, DPS parties are commonly used and are just as effective in a lot of cases. (Yes, even advents. Though it is riskier to just take full DPS.)

    The skill ceiling for support is low. You don't really find "bad" healers. The worst you'll hear about is that person who only heals themselves or doesn't heal at all. For creators, you just have to hit the enemy with your debuff skills. You can buff your allies as well to help them kill the enemy faster. It is really hard to be a bad support character. (About Potion Mist, it is better used before players on at low hp. Since it takes time to recover hp, it can't be used to save someone's life in the heat of a battle.)

    For creators, DPS isn't its strongest characteristic. It's weapon options prevent it from reaching the levels of Ranger and Warrior. Rogues have the ability to chain their skills together very well to out damage Creators. Also, most of the other skills have higher damage multipliers. Can you do good damage? Yes. Will you be doing the damage same amount or higher as the other classes focused on the damage? Not if the playing field is even.
     
  10. ~Rayleigh

    ~Rayleigh One for the money~ Staff Member Moderator

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    Too bad unless you pvp, Tanking has no real role in avabel as the aggro system is rather poor at best.

    All in all this was a very pleasant thread to read. One of the truer thread posts in a long time. Thanks for the read yall. Everyone answered his questions so far marvelously.
     
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  11. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Oh is this not typical of the forums haha sorry, in that case yes thank you all it has been most useful information. Although the acolyte/priest is the strongest healer I feel like I'm leaning towards creator or wanderer. Creator definitely seems cool but the wanderer only has to use 1 weapon - 2h spear - which seems so much easier to manage in terms of evolving and leveling it, but I feel like their utility from all accounts seems too limited haha.

    Ok I'm nearing level 30 and just can't decide between creator and wanderer haha. I know I don't want acolyte even though their heals are best, I like the idea of utility beyond just heals. So a few followup questions. How does a men/vit wanderer's heals compare to an int or strength creator?
    Do support wanderers still use 2h spear like other wanderers?
    So from my understanding here is the breakdown -
    Creators have 2 heals, potion mist and the planter tree thing. They can buff and debuff quite a bit from classes like the blacksmith and alchemist, this is generally their best support feature and why people like them in parties.
    Wanderers get 1 heal in the bard song, they also have an sp recovery and sleep ability as well as skills that push back enemies.
    In terms of attack both seem equal is that correct? Creators might be more single target focused and wanderers aoe maybe?
    It kind of seems like a men/vit build might have some good damage options if you want to be able to solo from time to time which I do, whereas it seems an int creator on the other hand is not a good choice.I also just like the look of a 2h spear over an axe and mace haha
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2016
  12. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
    Creator
    In Game Name:
    Ace
    Level:
    79
    Guild:
    AzureSky
    Who said they were just heals? I pretty sure I mentioned that they had some buffs. As you gain more buffs from other advanced classes, their utility goes up. Their biggest use is their healing, but it's not their only use. (There are 8 advanced classes. Did you really think it was only heals?)
    INT Creators win has down. I've seen what an INT creator can do. Anyway, your blunt and skill level determines how much you heal more than your INT. With 35 INT, a 5* level 75 blunt, and a level 7 Potion Mist, my heal is around 295-310 per tick (without buffs from anyone including myself). I crit heal for around 495 per tick (thanks Enchanter passive). This is already strong. If I had a better weapon or the skill leveled up, I could easily go higher. I don't know the highest heal noted from the Wanderer class.
    I find heal plant to be a really bad heal skill. From almost every person I've seen using it, it appeared to be faster to cast a Potion Mist. (Though that might be just me. I seriously find very little usefulness for it.) Other than that, that is pretty spot on.
    Actually they have two. One from Bard. The other from Undine. There is a small reason note about the SP recovery skill. It cuts into your max sp for a period of time. You can't use it random, or you'll find yourself in trouble. MEN is a very important stat for this class. That's MEN/VIT is a recommended build. (Though that's not a build I would go with since I'm a bit weird. That's just my disclaimer.) I should also note that you can only take one skill with you between advanced classes.
    I'm not sure. There are quite a bit of factors that play a role into damage. There's skill level. There is skill multipliers (Warrior skills hurt more than Creator skills). Then there is weapon used. I do know that Wanderers have access to a wide variety of skills than Creators.
    As a creator solely dedicated to support, you wouldn't use an axe. Bone Crush (the attack and magic attack down skill) is a blunt only skill. Also, axes reduce your magic attack. This lowers the heals of your Potion Mist. Those are the only things affected.
    Yeah, the other forum members didn't mention this, but Wanderer skills are still mostly strength and intelligence based. By going with this build, you are still dealing less damage. You'll have better heals though. (The only class unaffected by the "support" build is Acolyte.)
     
  13. ~Rayleigh

    ~Rayleigh One for the money~ Staff Member Moderator

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    Three, the camp fire skill from base class wanderer behaves like a HoT with both SP and HP. It alters the multiplier for regen rates so it benfits those who have higher Vit/Men. One full setting of the skill with the extended branch while sitting down can do a full heal for both SP and HP.
     
  14. Ace144

    Ace144 New Member

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    Class:
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    I totally forgot about it. I rarely see it used. It suffers the same problem that the Creator's Potion Mist has. Like the Creator's Potion Mist, you have to stay near or in range for a period of time in order to feel its effects. In the end, it would be faster to use any other method of recovery for everything except floor questing (which is the only time people are sitting down).
     
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  15. aleph

    aleph Active Member

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    I don't play a whole lot anymore, but I do have a bunch of creators and I quite enjoy the class. I've played variously as STR, INT, or DEX builds. Happy to do some testing if you tell me what you'd like to see. I'm not willing to allocate any status points for science, though. :)

    Lv 75 Alchemist with maxed Type C potion mist; maxed 6* lv 70 axe and blunt
    • STR 60 (50+10)
    • INT 43 (30+13)
    • VIT 20 (10+10)
    • MEN 23 (10+13)
    • Dex 90 (61+29)
    • 12 unallocated status points
    Lv 75 Blacksmith with level 8 Type C potion mist; maxed 6* lv 70 axe and blunt
    • STR 63 (50+13)
    • INT 20 (10+10)
    • VIT 23 (10+13)
    • MEN 20 (10+10)
    • DEX 90 (59+31)
    • 34 unallocated status points
    A couple of level 30 characters with enough JEXP to max a couple of the basic skills. Maxed lv 30 5* blunt.

    Lv 100 Enchanter with maxed Type C potion mist; maxed lv 90 weapons (8* blunt, 9* axe); not rebirthed; all non-gangue classes unlocked and mastered except for Enchanter which needs about 700k JEXP for full mastery.
    • STR 20 (10+10)
    • INT 120 (109+11) can increase to 140 with rings but DEX will drop to 100
    • VIT 20 (9+11)
    • MEN 15 (5+10)
    • DEX 120 (89+31)
    • 1 unallocated status point
    On my Lv 100 character, here are some heal numbers (buff is Stone of Moves only, enchanter passive doesn't apply since weapons all have elements; I hadn't set the planter heal skill as master skill so didn't test it):
    • blunt only, no buff: 715 regular / 1043 crit
    • blunt only, with buff: 790 regular / 1139 crit
    • blunt/axe, no buff: 460 regular / 684 crit
    • blunt/axe, with buff: 530 regular / 782 crit
    • axe only, no buff: 218 regular / 327 crit
    • axe only, with buff: 283 regular / 423 crit
    I haven't played Wanderer. My Acolyte is level 92 (INT build, not terribly interested in the melee advanced classes though I love the monk passive with an int build). My personal preference is Creator. I find that stat allocation is less important now that it's possible to get extremely strong weapons. But then again, I started playing back when 3* was the strongest you could get and the level cap was 60 (or was it 40? I can't remember). I've experimented a bit with not allocating any status points while levelling; it works reasonably well if you have strong weapons. No worse than trying to level a STR acolyte. These days I limit myself to farming on floors 18 or 14.
    • STR build is good for fast levelling into the 80s. Replace the axe with a blunt weapon and you still offer decent support.
    • DEX build is interesting: lots of crits in both attacks and heals to the point where some party members assumed that I was an acolyte-based character with a dex/crit buff when it was my natural dex giving me around 75% crit rate (rate not tested scientifically). Not recommended at lower levels as you don't have enough stat points to make a huge difference.
    • INT/DEX build (current build) is also interesting. It was an experimental build for higher level advents but I got bored of doing advents (also, Battle Force and Viking don't make the gangue advent grind attractive for me) so don't really have an opinion on its usefulness there. People sure do love this one in raids, though. Because of my strong axe I don't find that I suffer when it comes to dps, and crits are fairly common. I haven't tested this build to its fullest with the MATK based skills.
    • Other build notes: I've tried varying amounts of VIT and/or MEN. Both are useful to a point. With my play style (mostly f18 farming, no PVP) I allocate only a minimal amount, and add a pair of +10 rings for either stat depending on the situation. Now that free gems are a thing (and there's a Restatus Scroll R reward for completing floor 24) experiments are less permanent/expensive.
    In terms of the quality of heals, both of the creator's are somewhat analogous to the Priest's healing bubble spell (Selfee Holy?) in that they are durational rather than instant: people can watch for the location and run towards it, and don't have to worry about being in the right place at the right time. Really useful for bosses that don't move around much but in the higher level advents the bosses are all over the place so the usefulness is lower. Creators do have the advantage over acolytes of higher base HP, which means their in-combat survivability is higher. They can get right into the action, buffing/debuffing/healing, and attacking occasionally while soaking up a fair bit of damage.

    Also, get used to wield blow and swing roll. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  16. Tankno

    Tankno New Member

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    Wow thanks for those numbers! Does anyone have any numbers for wanderer heals to compare? I keep hearing a lot about creator healing numbers but even on the wanderer forum can't see and wanderer numbers.

    I had read that the wanderer heals are based on the person your healing's stats not your own. I know the campfire skill is like that but if the other 2 are that seems a bit dumb haha.

    In terms of damage though what about the aforementioned discord trick? That seems like it would allow you to make a men/vit wanderer and not have to lose out of being able to damage too. Or is this discord trick not that good and you're damage still pales in comparison to other classes?

    Finally after reading all this information, I feel like it would be cool to figure out a build for either creator or wanderer that can both support and deal decent damage. From what aleph wrote, I feel like a dexterity based build could be cool, maybe dexterity and vit. I know it might not have as big numbers as a strength creator or as big heals as an int creator, but maybe the increase in crits would balance it out? Its seems interesting because it benefits both attack and support although it would be less steady than a strength or int based build but has the benefit of being much more versatile. I also happened to get a lvl 80 6 star rune mace from a rune box so that might mean choosing creator is more logical haha. I imagine as a support creator you want to use just 1 blunt weapon, maybe a shield or another blunt for the one slots later when you are super rich?

    Just figured out definitively that all of a wanderer's heals are indeed based on the ment stat of the people healed not your own, unless you're just healing yourself haha. I feel like that swings my decision towards creator.

    Could anyone recommend a good dexterity build for the class? I feel like mostly dexterity and some vit would be a cool build, not as steady as the others but allows me to be a decent support and attacker and could be cool for pvp. Any suggestions on the stat allocation and if this is viable? Thanks!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2016

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